Euro Cult Movie Forum > Gialli
Gialli Incasso - Box Office
Zarith:
According to most directors, actors, journalists and fans, the Thrilling All' Italiana genre was extremely popular in the late 60ies and early 70ies.
Apparently this genre was a cash machine and career booster. It was so popular that almost every B movies director made one. Sergio Martino mentioned in interviews that both Lo Strano Vizio della Segniora Wardh and Torso were hits at the box office, Lucio Fulci said the same about Una Sull'Altra and A Lizard in a Woman's Skin, Umberto Lenzi about So Sweet So Perverse or Orgasmo.
Unfortunately I cannot confirm this. I studied the Italian box office and each movie's Incasso and was shocked to see that most classic gialli were not popular at all. The box-office rankings are so bad that I'm wondering why the trend lasted so long. This genre made less money than any other Italian filone.
Dario Argento is the only one who managed to penetrate the Italian TOP 20. His highest ranking is #8 in 1971 with Il Gato A Nove Code. All his gialli were in fact successful, never going below #13. His popularity is however an exception, almost an absurdity. Thrillers and horror films were extremely rare in the Italian TOP 20, usually populated by comedies, westerns and "high art" movies by Luchino Visconti, Ettore Escola or Bernardo Bertolucci.
From 1969 to 1973, here's the giallo box office (limited to film appearing in the yearly TOP 100):
-Il Gatto a 9 Code by Dario Argento, #8 in 1971
-Quattro Mosche Di Velluto Grigio by Dario Argento, #12 in 1972
-L'Uccello Dalle Piume Di Cristallo by Dario Argento, #13 in 1970
-Non Si Sevizia Un Paperino by Lucio Fulci, #36 in 1972
-Una Sull'Altra by Lucio Fulci, #39 in 1969
-Una Lucertola Con La Pelle Di Donna by Lucio Fulci, #44 in 1971
-L'Etrusco Uccide Ancora by Armando Crispino, #53 in 1972
-Una Farfalla Dalle Ali Insanguinate by Duccio Tessari, #60 in 1971
-Cose Avete Fatto A Solange? by Massimo Dallamano, #61 in 1972
-Lo Strano Vizio Della Signora Wardh by Sergio Martino, #70 in 1971
-La Morte Risale A Ieri Sera by Duccio Tessari, #75 in 1970
-Foto Proibite Di Una Signora Bene, by Luciano Ercoli #87 in 1970
-La Tarantola Dal Ventre Nero di Paolo Cavara, #95 in 1971
-Giornata Nera Per l'Ariete by Luigi Bazzoni, #98 in 1971
Only Dario Argento and Lucio Fulci made hits. Crispino, Tessari, Dallamano and Martino are also successful: #53 to #70 is relatively good for low budgets thrillers. The other gialli were flops, totally ignored.
It means that only 10 gialli out of the 200 produced during this period were truly popular. If we remove the outsiders Dario Argento and Lucio Fulci we are down to 4! That's extremely low compared to other filone (westerns, peplums, polizio.., etc...).
This genre was also a downer for most directors, a real plague.
Tonino Valerii could easily go up to the TOP 5 with his western: I Giorni Dell'ira and Il Mio Nome E Nessuno were both #5 in 1968 and 1973. But Mio Caro Assassino, his only giallo, kicked him out of the TOP 100. It was a gigantic flop for this very popular director. Duccio Tessari had also a bad experience with his gialli: none of them reached the popularity of his other movies.
Even genre specialists like Sergio Martino and Lucio Fulci had a hard time with the Thrilling. By switching to other genres they reached a much wider audience. Lucio Fulci's comedy All'Onorevole Piacciono Le Donne was #30 in 1972 and his Zanna Bianca was #12 in 1973. For Sergio Martino the difference is even more striking. Only one of his thriller appears in the TOP 100, but his comedies went up to #14. Tutti I Colori Del Buio's gross, for example, is only 290 millions lira, while Zucchero, Miele E Peperoncino a generous 1.3 billions.
Now I suppose these results must be balanced with the international career and evaluated over a longer period, but in 1970 nobody could guess how popular these films would be in other territories or on second release. The film companies could only rely on the Italian box-office results. And they were mediocre. So why did they start to produce so many of these films? It's a mystery to me...
It seems that Italian producers were all hypnotized by Dario Argento's success. L'Uccelo Dal Piume Di Cristallo was such an unexpected hit, that they directly developed dozens of clones, all to be released in 1971-1972, at the hysteric pace of 1 per week. As soon as they noticed that only Dario Argento had the key to the TOP 20, they stopped abruptly the production. In late 1972 it was over.
I'm a getting it right? Did I miss something?
Thanks for any input.
Jonny:
I did a few Lira to $ conversions of box office takings a while back in this thread...
http://www.lovelockandload.net/forum/index.php?topic=1990.0
Can't answer you're question but it might be interesting all the same though.
CardPlayer4:
--- Quote from: Zarith on 27 Nov 2010 - 12:48 ---Dario Argento is the only one who managed to penetrate the Italian TOP 20.
--- End quote ---
Do you have the numbers of admissions for Argento's films in Italy Zarith?
I can't find them anywhere,just the numbers of admissions for his last 5 films.
Zarith:
--- Quote from: Jonny on 27 Nov 2010 - 13:25 ---I did a few Lira to $ conversions of box office takings a while back in this thread...
http://www.lovelockandload.net/forum/index.php?topic=1990.0
Can't answer you're question but it might be interesting all the same though.
--- End quote ---
Thanks Johnny!
--- Quote from: CardPlayer4 on 27 Nov 2010 - 19:40 ---Do you have the numbers of admissions for Argento's films in Italy Zarith?
I can't find them anywhere,just the numbers of admissions for his last 5 films.
--- End quote ---
I only have the incassi and box office ranking. But it's easy to make an estimation.
The price of a ticket in the early 70ies was 350 lira. It means the number of admissions was (approx.):
L'Uccello...: 1.3 billions lira > 3.4 millions tickets.
Il Gatto...: 2.4 billions lira > 6.8 millions tickets.
Quatre Mosche...: 2.3 billions lira > 6.5 millions tickets.
In the mid 70ies the ticket price went up to 700 lira. We then get something like:
Profondo Rosso: 3.7 billions > 5.2 millions tickets.
Suspiria: 3.4 billions > 4.8 millions tickets.
Inferno: 4 billions > 5.7 millions tickets (probably a bit less).
For the movies of the 80ies and later, I don't know. The Italian global gross is rarely available, we only get the results of the first release in large cities. But you could figure it out by comparing it with other films.
http://www.hitparadeitalia.it/bof/boi/index.html
In any case, Argento is successful only until Opera. From Tenebre to Opera, the number of admission never go bellow 3 millions and Argento stay in the TOP 20. After that it's a brutal decline: Due Occhi brings him down to #49 and he will stay there for the next 15 years (Trauma is #48,... Il Cartaio #53). It's bad but not disastrous considering the state of Italian cinema, totally dominated by local comedies and Hollywood blockbusters. No other Italian thriller director did better.
Until now, his only true flop is La Terza Madre, #83, his worse rank ever. And Giallo didn't do better as far as I know.
CardPlayer4:
--- Quote from: Zarith on 28 Nov 2010 - 16:15 ---
L'Uccello...: 1.3 billions lira > 3.4 millions tickets.
Il Gatto...: 2.4 billions lira > 6.8 millions tickets.
Quatre Mosche...: 2.3 billions lira > 6.5 millions tickets.
In the mid 70ies the ticket price went up to 700 lira. We then get something like:
Profondo Rosso: 3.7 billions > 5.2 millions tickets.
Suspiria: 3.4 billions > 4.8 millions tickets.
Inferno: 4 billions > 5.7 millions tickets (probably a bit less).
--- End quote ---
Incredible numbers,when you think about it!
The kind of numbers Sergio Leone did with his spaghetti westerns,i guess?
Now,like you said,only comedies seem to do well in Italy,and a few thrillers too ("Romanzo criminale","Palermo Milano..."...Michele Soavi's "Arrivederci amore,ciao" bombed,though)...also the Ferzan Ozpetek and Carlo Verdone films doing very well at the italian box office.
--- Quote from: Zarith on 28 Nov 2010 - 16:15 ---After that it's a brutal decline: Due Occhi brings him down to #49 and he will stay there for the next 15 years (Trauma is #48,... Il Cartaio #53). It's bad but not disastrous considering the state of Italian cinema, totally dominated by local comedies and Hollywood blockbusters. No other Italian thriller director did better.
--- End quote ---
According to Imdb "La sindrome di Stendhal","Non ho sonno" and "Il Cartaio" all did between 425 000 and 470 000 admissions in Italy...not huge but not bad too for "genre films" (if in France we could make these kind of admissions for our horror films it would be awesome ha ha ;D...in France the average for the "new wave of horror french films" is around and often less than 100 000 admissions per film!!!...save for a few "old" hits like "Le pacte des loups","the crimson rivers" or "Promenons nous dans les bois")
--- Quote from: Zarith on 28 Nov 2010 - 16:15 ---Until now, his only true flop is La Terza Madre, #83, his worse rank ever.
--- End quote ---
Isn't it "Phantom of the Opera"?...i've read that "Phantom" at the time bombed in Italy,especially because it was a pretty big budget for an european horror film (on Imdb: 255 000 admissions for "Phantom",around 340 000 for "La Terza Madre")...but "La Terza Madre" indeed met disappointing results for Medusa,i remember that it was a pretty big release for them,like "Il Cartaio" was,in a lesser extent,in 2004.
I forgot "Le cinque giornate" which wasn't really a hit too...
--- Quote from: Zarith on 28 Nov 2010 - 16:15 ---http://www.hitparadeitalia.it/bof/boi/index.html
--- End quote ---
I don't know what happened to this site but a few times ago the italian box office from 1977 to now was still available...and we could see indeed that
--- Quote from: Zarith on 28 Nov 2010 - 16:15 ---From Tenebre to Opera, the number of admission never go bellow 3 millions and Argento stay in the TOP 20.
--- End quote ---
"Opera" was said at the time to be an half success/half failure at the italian box office because of its big budget but it did 1 million of admissions in Italy!!..."Phenomena","Demons" and "La Chiesa" (doing more than "Freddy 4" and "Tucker" in 1989...) were also hits.
"Deep Red" is Argento's most well known and praised film in Italy but it's a bit fun to notice that the often maligned "Cat'o"nine tails" did overall better numbers..
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