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[ecc]

Surprised there's no thread for this film.  Then again, it hasn't had much action on the DVD release front up til now and it seems to be one of Argento's least-discussed films.  Now there are three upcoming BluRay/DVD editions (two soon from Arrow and Camera Obscura and one in 2011 from Blue Underground).

Although I like the film, I had written off the symbolism largely because Argento is so vague on the film, Nicolodi offered ideas but did not seem to participate on the script, and I believe this was the film that Argento had hepatitis while directing.  Watching it again, recently, I noticed a lot of details and things that demanded questioning.

First off, where is the house of the damned belonging to Mater Lachrymarum in Rome (in the context of this film, not MOTHER OF TEARS)?  After the exterior reveal of the apartment building in New York, we get a shot of the number plaque which reads "49" and it is doubled later on by the address number of the Library of Philosophy in Rome that Sara visits to find the book on The Three Mothers.  The Mother of Darkness lives in a building that is now an apartment building (and seems ridiculously immense to have been a private house) so does the Mother of Tears live in a residence that was transformed into a library?  

The presence of cat familiars at the library (briefly seen outside the basement window when Sara wanders down looking for an exit) and the evil bookbinder (unless he's just another possessed victim like the hot dog vendor later although the clawed hands suggest otherwise) suggest that that is the dwelling place of Mater Lachrymarum (if so, she seems to have been shortchanged on the Art Deco decor).  Also, Sara's own apartment building seemed to be another likely candidate for her lair.

Then again, the Mother of Sighs' domicile seemed to have been a dance academy from the start.  The apartment building in New York could have been so from the start also and perhaps the library was always so.  Perhaps the dwelling places are meant to attract creative types (the dancers who were apparently also studied in the occult in SUSPIRIA, poetess Rose and musicologist Mark along with mystic George Gurdjieff to the apartment building, and academics to the library in Rome).

Isn't it hilarious that the book "The Three Mothers" is supposed to contain the secrets of the witches and people who read it are soon killed after but the book seems to be relatively easy to obtain?  It's on the shelf at the library (why put it out if you don't want anyone reading it unless that's the trap) and in New York antique dealer Kazanian had three copies on the shelf (in addition to the one he sold Rose although Kazanian himself did not seem to be in league with the witches) right next door to the dwelling place of the Mother of Darkness.  It becomes a much rarer volume by the third film (and more nicely bound, too).  Note that the book is taken but we never see any copies destroyed.

In the corridors, Rose sees a dark figure behind the glass and then cat's eyes peering back at her.

Besides the presence of the cats, Rose cuts her hand on a glass doorknob and Sara pricks her finger strangely on the cab door.  Kazanian is bitten or scratched by one of the cats but the other victims don't experience similar "pricks" before their deaths.

Who was prying up the floorboards in Elise's apartment?  Her servant only notices this after Elise has disappeared so it is unlikely that it was Elise.  What were all the books and papers littering the crawlspace between the floors?

Why does Mark see the ocean in his dream?

What is the witches' relationship to the moon?

What transformation was the Mother of Darkness offering Mark?  Why did he qualify for it unlike others?  Sure, he found Varelli and the lair of the Mother of Darkness but he was still pretty clueless (his sister certainly knew more than him and it seems that the Mother of Tears was distracting him from reading the letter Rose sent him).  Or was the transformation just a more poetic way of passing from life into death?

Any thoughts?

[Zarith]

I don't think you're going to like what I'll write... anyway, here I go.

There's no meaning or logic at all. You see and understand what you want. Inferno was almost entirely improvised. The script was never finished and modified constantly. Bits and pieces were shot randomly and then stitched together. The actors reported several times that Argento was clueless about what he really wanted to do... He was relying exclusivity on his inspiration, thinking his visions were enough to build a film. Personally I think he failed. But it's a beautiful failure.

Inferno is full of questions without answers, clues without solutions. It's a deceptive journey. Some tolerate it, others don't.

Back then, Lucio Fulci was following the same path. L'Aldilà and Inferno are both pure nightmare, totally unfiltered and unstructured.

here a very interesting interview of Fulci (that I roughly translate):

"(L'Aldilà) is a pure "Artaudian" film. I personally met Antonin Artaud. He stared at me with his insane eyes 30 years ago. My idea was to make a radical movie, with of all the horrors of our world. It's a movie without story: a house, dead people returning from hell,... There is no logic to find in it, it's only a succession of images"

"There are connections between Argento and me: He also studied Artaud and these two movies (L'Aldilà and Inferno) have no structure. It's deliberate. We attempted to make, in Italy, strictly thematic movies, without any intrigue. From all my movies L'Aldilà is the one with the most non-existent story, because, like Inferno, it's a movie going against conventions, against traditional film making methods."

[Paul]

"(L'Aldilà) is a pure "Artaundian" film. I personally met Antonin Artaud. He stared at me with his insane eyes 30 years ago. My idea was to make a radical movie, with of all the horrors of our world. It's a movie without story: a house, death returning from hell,... There is no logic to find in it, it's only a succession of images"

"There are connections between Argento and me: He also studied Artaud and these two movies (L'Aldilà and Inferno) have no structure. It's deliberate. We attempted to make, in Italy, strictly thematic movies, without any intrigue. From all my movies L'Aldilà is the one with the most non-existent story, because, like Inferno, it's a movie that goes against conventions, against traditional film making methods."

That's a great quote. The same can be said of David Lynch's more surreal work (ERASERHEAD, LOST HIGHWAY, INLAND EMPIRE). I do think however that there is some logic at play in the latter two of the three Lynch films I mentioned.

[mook]

I'd go along with not trying to understand Argento films. When it comes to storytelling Argento seems to be taking the piss, with some of the most absurd plots riddled with holes that don't bear thinking about. Best just to sit back and enjoy the visuals, and accept dream logic instead.

[ecc]

I'm not saying it has to make sense just that there are some discussion-worthy points.  Argento may have been going with his inspiration but there are probably some vague sources of inspiration (more so than the De Quincey essay which only Cozzi's BLACK CAT actually cites) even if as a whole it does not come together.

[Filmbar70]

Well, it all depends what you want out of a movie. The issue is some folk demand more prosaic rational for the events viewed, and see ‘dream logic’ as a get out cause for director to indulge in his / her own visual fantasies, without recourse to narrative cohesion. Whether or not these elements make mechanical sense is irrelevant for me, as long as they contribute to the atmosphere (the actual essence) of the film. With Inferno and Lynch works mentioned by Paul, you feel as if you’re on the crux of unraveling the mystery, which is the most exciting point of any story. Once the rational has been delivered, the mystery has been ‘set’,  allowing the viewer has less room to manoeuvre in their own imaginative space, effectively rendering the viewing experience as passive as opposed to invested.  I believe Lynch was saying a big ‘fuck you’ with ‘Inland Empire’ - by stretching out the duration, it’s almost impossible to correlate the events to create a clear, cohesive and closed narrative. Point is, we don’t have to always have to comprehend everything in a purely mechanical sense – though we’ve been lead down that path by years of storytelling demanded by our own bloody brains. Think I’ll have a sit down now...

[Zarith]

I'm not saying it has to make sense just that there are some discussion-worthy points.  Argento may have been going with his inspiration but there are probably some vague sources of inspiration (more so than the De Quincey essay which only Cozzi's BLACK CAT actually cites) even if as a whole it does not come together.

I think the plot elements are only excuses to unleash a fantasy world. It's some sort of ritual, an invocation. Argento is like a priest, summoning dark spirits. His goal is to create a totally unpredictable sensuous world. The more you get lost in it, the better. The whole 3 witches concept is nothing more than a McGuffin. Even Argento and Nicodoli cannot clearly explain what it's all about. Remove the Mater Suspiriorum from Suspiria and the Mater Whateverum from Inferno and nothing will change. The films only lose a bit of their gothic/mystic atmosphere.

I saw Inferno several times, but it would be impossible for me to even summarize it. The more I ask myself questions, the less it make sense. Suspiria is easier to swallow since it has a very classic "Alice in Wonderland" structure and a strong central character. Inferno is totally chaotic.

In the early eighties I think Argento wrote scripts only to please studios (no producer will put money on a movie without a scenario). But in reality, Argento didn't care at all. Inferno and Phenomena are a narrative mess. It would be doing Argento a favor to find a structure in these movies. Profondo Rosso is totally different. It's an extremely well written movie. Everything make sense.

[ecc]

Think I’ll have a sit down now...

I can relate.  I was reading this aloud and I ran out of breath. 

[Filmbar70]

Lucky you just ran out of breath. I ran out of brain cells...

[CardPlayer4]

[Inferno and Phenomena are a narrative mess.

that's why they are in my opinion -with,in a lesser extent,"Opera"- his most poetic,dreamy,"free" films...

Inferno was almost entirely improvised.

did he shoot the film without storyboards?
I've read that he used systematically storyboards for his films,at least up to "Jenifer".

[Zarith]

did he shoot the film without storyboards?
I've read that he used systematically storyboards for his films,at least up to "Jenifer".

I might be wrong, but I don't think Argento ever used storyboards in the 70ies, 80ies. I never saw one.

They probably did little sketches for the complex crane sequences and the visual effects, but I doubt there was a complete storyboard.

[ecc]

did he shoot the film without storyboards?
I've read that he used systematically storyboards for his films,at least up to "Jenifer".

I might be wrong, but I don't think Argento ever used storyboards in the 70ies, 80ies. I never saw one.

They probably did little sketches for the complex crane sequences and the visual effects, but I doubt there was a complete storyboard.

What about Cozzi on the sequences he shot for Argento (like the FOUR FLIES crash)?

[ecc]

I'll amend my comment in the initial post.  It looks like there will be 4 BluRays of the title coming up.  The Wild Side page says Storaro supervised BIRD (which it suggests will be in cropped Univisium rather than 2.35:1) and the other titles supervised by Argento (no mention of the other cinematographers) with the exception of INFERNO which just says mastered in HD from the negative so I am guessing it will use the same Fox HD master as the other editions (perhaps with some additional work; the only substantial extra on the Wild Side will be an interview with Argento and cinematographer Romano Albani so perhaps he supervised some additional color work).

[ecc]

DVDBeaver SD comparison.

[Inspector Tanzi]

Some shots look better on each version.